Transformational cultures use the manager as a coach
Tiffany Gaskell outlines coaching as a route to transformational leadership
Tiffany Gaskell is the co-author of Coaching for Performance, the top-selling guide to coaching first published by Sir John Whitmore, the inventor of the discipline.
It’s curious to consider that there was a founder of coaching, and Tiffany takes me through the history of the practice, how it took hold and where it is today.
There’s a key consideration about the modern manager given to us by the Gallup Global Workplace Report, 80% of those who are engaged with their jobs say they’ve received direct feedback from their manager in the last week.
This is a powerful insight but also poses a huge challenge – how can any of us find the time to observe and then feedback to every worker in our team. Tiffany explains that this is where a culture of coaching comes in, transferring the burden of observation from the manager to facilitating a socratic questioning approach. You can follow Tiffany on LinkedIn and the book is out now.
Transcript
Bruce Daisley (00:04.718)
This is Eat Sleep Work Repeat, it’s podcast about making work better. Hello, I’m Bruce Taisley. There’s an interesting statistic in the Gallup Workplace Survey that suggests that 80 % of the people who are engaged with their job say they’ve received direct feedback from their manager in the last week. And it poses a really interesting challenge that if we know that to make people engage with their jobs, we need to give them feedback, we need to give them…
advice, mentoring direction. It poses a really interesting challenge that how have any of us got the time to observe enough of what someone is doing to be helpful, to be constructive, to spot some sort of insight worth sharing. And that is where I think today’s discussion proves real value. I’m talking to Tiffany Gaskell. She’s a co-author. of the bestselling book about coaching in the world, co-written by the late Sir John Whitmore, who was the inventor of coaching. And firstly, that’s a really interesting start point, right? The idea that coaching was invented is something that I find really curious. And it was not only invented, it evolved. It was a concept that Sir John Whitmore had in his mind. He created a model. It didn’t really take hold. It was only by evolving that model that it led to transformational performance. And I think that’s why this discussion with Tiffany is so valuable. We go into the importance of coaching. Is coaching a bubble? I mean, you must know someone who’s become a coach. Everyone seems to be trying to become a coach, but we go beyond that. We go into what coaching can achieve for us, what coaching is and how enlightened organizations are trying to build a culture of coaching.
really powerful free-form discussion. Tiffany’s book is just out in its sixth edition, Coaching for Performance, and you’ll see a link to that in the show notes. I really enjoyed this discussion. This is my discussion with Tiffany Gascon.
Bruce Daisley (02:18.52)
Tiffany, thank you so much for joining me. I wonder if to kick off you could introduce who you are and what you do.
Tiffany Gaskell
Thank you. So I’m co-CEO of Performance Consultants. I’m an ex-investment banker and I have been leading performance consultants for the last 15 years and it’s company that I co-founded with Sir John Whitmore and David Brown and Sir John Whitmore of course was the pioneer of coaching.
Bruce Daisley
Yeah. And I’d love to sort of go into a little bit about coaching to start, because it seems like coaching is taking over the world. Each successive week, certainly if you reach a certain age, each successive week, one of your former colleagues will announce themselves as setting up a coaching consultancy. mean, is coaching a bubble? Is coaching like this trend that’s going to take over all of us? How do you think about the whole field of coaching?
Tiffany Gaskell
Well, it’s so interesting, isn’t it? Because coaching has exploded and everyone and one’s aunt is now a coach. So here’s the thing. Sir John Whitmore, he, you know, I mentioned in the introduction, he founded the coaching industry. He was the first person to call coaching coaching. So everything that we see in the world today, like wellness, executive coaching, life coaching, all of that is derived from his work.
And what it’s talking about really is it’s talking about facilitating human potential. And I think probably that’s why, the reason why everyone’s pining into coaching right now, because it is so needed in the world today.
Bruce Daisley (03:52.406)
It really strikes me that there’s sort of an accident in the way that coaching has come about in the sense that I was reading your book and it was really interesting the origin of how coaching really took hold. talk in the book about how there used to be like a seven C’s model and it was like that didn’t kind of work. And it was only when a different model came about, the grow model, that actually it seemed to connect with people. And that seemed like a really strange origin story in the sense that it’s relatable, that sometimes it’s only when someone can express something in a transferable way that it takes hold. So talk to me about the fairly recent history of coaching and how it’s grown to be such a big field.
Tiffany Gaskell
Yeah. In terms of recent history, I was a banker back in 2000 and I hadn’t heard about coaching. And just before I left the bank, I did hear about coaching. And since then, till now, it’s exploded. Now, John was sort of forming the concepts back in the late 1970s. But to come forward, the way I think about the market,
now is that there’s a lot of coaches, there is the professionalization of the industry, which is what we’re standing for, and also the democratization of coaching. Because what I believe really needs to happen is to get these skills into the hands of leaders in organizations. Because coaching is facilitation technique, then what’s happening is those leaders are enabling people to fulfill their purpose, enjoy work and, and live their potential at work. And that’s what work needs to move to from my perspective. And coaching is the midwife of that.
Bruce Daisley (05:48.184)
There are so many coaches. that because it works so effectively at unlocking our real potential? the reason why so many people are flocking into it is actually it’s adding so much value. Or are there so many coaches flocking into it because people who have recognized the achievements of the people who are good at it and have thought this is a way to make a living. What’s your feeling about the explosion of coaches? Is it dilutive to the quality of what actually happens in coaching?
Tiffany Gaskell
I think it’s a bit of both. So I do think there’s a lot of piling in just because it looks like it’s a really easy thing to do. However, there’s also lot of expertise. So people who have carved out a niche and are adding real value. I think that between two those stories is exactly, you know, as you say, what’s happening at the moment. What’s key is it’s self-regulated. And so
people sign up to one of the big organizations that stand for the ethics and approach, underpinning the actual coaching being done and the people get qualifications. So all of that is really important.
Bruce
It begs a really interesting question when we’re thinking about coaching and work. I guess the first question is, what’s the difference between coaching and mentoring? Frequently in a work environment, we might find that we’re asking someone to become our mentor or someone who’s going to provide guidance for us. But is there a difference between that and coaching? How do you perceive them?
Tiffany Gaskell (07:24.524)
The way to think about coaching is like I was saying about the facilitation techniques. So there’s not much content there, whereas mentoring is all about content. And so when you build the skills of coaching into the fabric of an organization, you start to transform the culture and you start to ignite high potential, high performance culture, as well as high potential. But it completely changes the game. And
Bruce
So mentoring is more of, if I’m telling you how to do something, that means that you’re not thinking so much yourself about how to do it. You know, you’re relying on my expertise with coaching, asking you how to do something and you therefore are seeking the answers within yourself.
Tiffany Gaskell
Okay. So that’s why you said there’s not a lot of content there. Why? Because coaching in its very essence, what he’s saying, how did that feel? What do you think? And merely asking someone to be reflective about their own experience.
Bruce
Yeah, well, let’s take a case because, you know, how do you feel? What do you think? It’s very esoteric, right? But what we want to do is we want to go down to the nuts and bolts of how coaching can ignite business. If we look at the grow model, just take that as an example. So you’ve got a G for goal to start off with. this is, so the question there is if you had a magic wand,
what would you love to happen? So that gets people, teams, individuals, whatever, outside of the reality of things and into, wow, what’s possible? Because in organizations, a lot of people start with the problem and you’re going to away from the problem and get into the potential. So that’s the G. Then you’re into the R. So the R is all about reality. So where are we now? So right now you’ve got a gap analysis. So you’ve got the goal and reality.
Tiffany Gaskell (09:19.968)
And that’s what traditional consultants use, right? To understand how to get from where they are to where they want to go to. And then you’re into options, that’s blue sky thinking. That’s if anything were possible, what are the things that we could do? And then it’s will, what will we do? And so that’s why the Grow model is really nice and simple as opposed to that 7C sort of steps that they had initially. Leaders and managers can pick up off the peg and just sort of work with it and go with it.
Bruce
The follow up question I was going to ask really that can a manager be an effective coach? One of the questions we hear quite frequently now is that the manager of the future is a coach rather than a manager. So I wonder if you could talk to about the relationship between management and coaching.
Tiffany Gaskell
Yes, a manager can be a great coach. Now here’s the thing, it’s different, right? You’re not in formal coaching anymore. You’re in leader as coach. And that’s a completely different game. And so there’s some very specific skills that are brought to the net that don’t come to the coaching, into the coaching world. I’m talking about formal coaching world. In terms of leaders doing that, we call that transformational leadership. That is…
we’ve proven to be the highest performing leadership style that there is in the workplace. And the reason is it stands to reason because it’s all about facilitating potential and performance and lowering interferences.
Bruce Daisley
So that’s the highest form of leadership. If someone is seeking to be a great leader, a great manager, coaching skills, sort of thinking about these methods is probably the most important thing for them to do. You’ve mentioned the Grow model there. Very straightforward, very simple. You can sort of see someone scribbling it down and using it as a way to maybe help them navigate their way through a one-to-one. Are there any other tools in our toolbox that we should be
Tiffany Gaskell (10:58.732)
Exactly. Yep.
Bruce Daisley (11:14.978)
thinking about the basis of good coaching. The go-to place for me is feedback. Because feedback has got such a bad name. You know, it’s like, I want to give you some feedback is sort of the worst sentence you’ll hear in an organization. That’s the old style of feedback. The new style of feedback, which is what transformational leaders do and which we teach, it’s about learning and exploring two different perspectives. So it’s the perspective of the person giving the feedback and the perspective of the person who’s receiving the feedback.
There’s no right and wrong. So leaning into Amy Edmondson’s work, which you’ve talked about a lot, which is psychological safety, what happens there is that it doesn’t become a blame game. It becomes an exploration and learning game. And that’s much healthier and creates that high performance culture make the burden on a manager slightly easier, one of the things that I’ve been really struck with gallup’s global workplace report. Anyone trying to navigate this and think about creating a more motivated and engaged workforce will be struck by one piece of data, which is one of the most predictive piece of data about engagement that says that 80 % of engaged workers say that they’ve received direct feedback from their boss this week.
And the challenge to put ourselves in the shoes of a manager, a middle manager, someone who manages people, is that an incredibly high burden. See if a manager manages 10 people, try and give direct feedback to every one of them that’s meaningful and that they’re going to feel values them. It proves very difficult. And the way you describe this here, potentially is a good workaround. So a manager might…call out something that’s in someone’s diary or a meeting that they had or an interaction that they had and just ask how it felt, what did they do, what worked well. Is that what you’d suggest? What are the questions might they ask?
Tiffany Gaskell
that’s literally it. So I’m wondering if you’ve done some training. What it is, is it’s coming from a I’m beside you and I’m in partnership with you perspective and exploring, you know, the other person’s world. So yes, it’s all of that and
Bruce
I read your book.
Tiffany Gaskell (13:26.306)
You know, what I think of as a leader and manager is that as I’m working with the people I’m working with, if there’s something that I’m sure about, I will talk to them immediately about it. You know, there’s no sort of like talking to other people or any of that stuff. It is about being authentic and open and human, you know, and just explore because people don’t set out to do things badly. It’s exploring what’s behind that and what’s happening.
Does that mean then that the fundamental skill of a coach is empathy? I guess you don’t necessarily have to empathize with someone to ask questions to try and empathize with them. What do you perceive? What are the things that you would be suggesting someone looks for in a coach for them?
We know about emotional intelligence from Daniel Goldman’s work, right? We know that people who have emotional intelligence are best leaders. With coaching, what it does is it actually teaches emotional intelligence. So as you learn to become a transformational leader or become a coach, you are learning about yourself. I always say that it’s like the handbook that we as human beings never got.
We come to every relationship with a baggage of all the knowledge of what we’ve had before. Unless we’re actually taught something else, and I’ve done an MBA and they didn’t teach it, how are we to know?
I’m just keen to explore a bit more about the leader as a coach, how a leader might then try to build this desire for feedback from an individual. Maybe less with direct feedback, but more with these coaching approaches. Is there any other guidance you could give a manager as they’re thinking about those things?
Tiffany Gaskell (15:04.6)
Whilst we’re talking here, there’s something that we can do and we can do it with all your listeners as well. So I want you to imagine that as you’re talking to me, you’re thinking about me as a person who is a problem. And as you’re hearing me talk, just notice what are you thinking about me and what comes up for you as you put yourself in that mindset.
Bruce Daisley (15:29.454)
Give me a bit more, so how are you a problem for me?
Tiffany Gaskell
Okay, I’m a problem because… and you’re making this stuff up about me, right? Because the way we do things is human beings. So I’m a problem because I’m always in a bad mood. I never come when I’m meant to come. I’m always late with tasks and you’ve sickly had enough of me.
Bruce Daisley
Okay, so the first thing I’m thinking there is what’s going on here. Is this circumstance or is this attitude? So I’m immediately thinking I’d probably want to ask the question, not necessarily is everything okay, but you know, how’s life going? How’s the world for you right now?
Tiffany Gaskell
It was so funny because you basically leapt to the coaching mindset. So what it is, that what most people say in that scenario, Bruce, is they say, oh my goodness, if I’m thinking this person is a problem, I’m immediately tense about them. I’m immediately afraid about having interaction with them. So, and I’ve heard, you you’ve got a great reputation as a leader. And so I’m not surprised that you went straight to the place where
Bruce Daisley (16:27.745)
Right, right, right. So I slightly ruined your example, but…
Tiffany Gaskell
But in a good way, know. Leading off from that, it’s the last one, which is where you were, is you’re seeing this person is on a learning journey and full of potential. Now that’s where you were coming from. You’re like, you know, this person is fully capable. Let me just find out what’s going on with them.
Bruce
me through, I guess you’ve had this, like a lot of coaches actually, you’ve had a career that’s exceeded in one area and then you’ve come into coaching. Have you seen firsthand the transformational impact of this? One of the reasons why so many people are flocking into coaching is it must be proving itself by people rebooking and describe to me overall the impact of the coaching profession.
Tiffany Gaskell
So I think one of the highlights of my career so far has been working with a large multinational called Linda. And you won’t have heard about them necessarily, but they’re an industrial gas company and they’re the ones who put fizz in Coca-Cola. And so what it is is that this is a high reliability organization. What that means is that
They do measure their culture. This is unique, by the way, other companies should measure their culture. They measure their culture because they know of the impact of culture on safety performance. When we were working with them, ran some workshops where we’re teaching these skills, these new transformation leader skills to safety leaders. And there was a guy called Bruce who came to the workshops. And when he heard about the approach, he said,
This is never going to work. This whole idea of asking people about safety as opposed to telling them. And when he came out of the workshop, he was completely transformed in that mindset because he said, I can’t believe that we’ve been telling people how to do safety rather than asking them. They know all the answers. And what the workers were saying was finally they’re asking me to use my brain after.
Three months, we had a 73 % improvement in performance, safety performance. And what that means is less incidents, accidents, and stuff like that. So it’s about people being safe in their work environment.
Bruce
Okay, so that’s really interesting as an application. So the same exercise, the same amount of time, but to change it from being didactic into being collegiate and consultative and coaching based has a transformation on the result. Cause one of the things that scribbled down was the sort of the comparison of training retention. When somebody’s told information, their retention of that information after three months in general is about 10%. When someone has been told it, shown it, and then experienced it. I guess learn one, teach one, do one, I think sometimes I had the NHS talk about it. Then you’ve got 65 % three month retention, which is a six fold increase. And so I guess what you’re describing is something very similar to that. When you activate their brains with something that feels like two way discourse, it seems to be way more effective.
Tiffany Gaskell
Exactly. that is that’s the fuel that modern businesses can take and bring into their organization. And that is the complete democratization of coaching because it’s getting coaching right down into the corners of the organization through all the leaders and managers. And that’s where we work with large organizations now working with Johnson & 26,000 people leaders. When you start to do that, you really change the environment and you really transform to that high performance and high potential, which is really exciting.
Bruce
mentioned there that that organization tried to instill its culture, measure its culture and benchmark it. When you’re describing this as an aspect of culture, did you describe it as a coaching culture or do you think about it, do you present it in a slightly different way to that?
Tiffany Gaskell
Yeah, that’s a really interesting question because I’m always thinking as an ex-banker, I’m always thinking what’s going to make sense to the C-suite? You know, what is it that they’re going to understand? So companies are really, are really interested in creating a coaching culture. I mean, what’s that? What they are interested in doing is creating a high performance culture. And by the way, it’s the same thing. So what we talk about is a high performance culture and we created something called the performance curve. of the back of their safety work where we essentially have a model that we can put in front of people and so they can understand no matter what size the organization, what culture they have, just by looking at it and it’s published in the book.
In your experience, are there some people who are better suited for this or is it often? I’ll tell you specifically why I asked this question. It’s because I had a coach briefly myself, a leadership coach. I didn’t get loads from it and it was partly a thing. I can’t work out whether it was the person I had and my company was paying and it was a premium price. I don’t know whether it’s because I was just turning up each time I met him.
Bruce Daisley (22:07.598)
And I had a very clear plan of, know, on the, on the grow model had a very clear notion of the goals I wanted to achieve and the gap between those goals and the reality. And I was so clear minded myself with what I wanted to accomplish. It just felt like a bit like a bit of a show and tell session. I was turning up, I was telling him what I was going to do next. I didn’t get a lot from it. And I’ve chatted to a couple of other coaches and they’ve said to me, okay, but did he ask this? Why do you think I didn’t get a lot from that experience? What was going wrong there?
Tiffany Gaskell
difficult to tell basically. seem to me like an minded person. So there’s this whole thing, Kate, is someone coachable? Yeah. You know, non-coachable is someone who literally doesn’t want to know about it. You seem like you’ve got a tick there. And then I’m just thinking about chemistry and there are different, lots of different types of coaching. So lots of different sorts of training as well. So what I would imagine for you, would have to be very pregnant. I don’t know, I just get that feeling. But at the same time, bringing some of the magic of coaching, mean, coaching for me has completely transformed my life because there I was, I was on a trading floor, of four women on a trading floor of 200 men. And I didn’t have the resources or the know-how within myself at that time to really be the person that I wanted to be in that environment. So I ended up trying to be someone else, which is quite male and obviously it didn’t go with me. And so I needed to leave that environment to find my way of doing things. And if I’d had coaching, then that would have really helped me. So it’s very difficult to say about your experience.
Bruce Daisley (23:57.986)
That raises a really interesting question. One of the things that we definitely know about therapy when therapy is measured is the quality of the relationship with a therapist is the defining aspect. Unless you get on with your therapist, unless you have a rapport with your therapist. Yeah, chemistry, it doesn’t work. And so it begs a really interesting question. How should someone set about choosing the right coach for them? Because I guess you don’t just want someone, you’re going to have loads of giggles with, it’s going to be something that’s going to strive to achieve a high performance. What does a great coaching relationship look like? And you mentioned different forms of coaching. How would someone set about trying to choose what sort of coach they wanted?
Yes, so first of course you’re going for the form that you want, right? So if I want a life coach because I want to work on my life or I want wellness coach or I want performance coach in the workplace. So you’re doing that. Then you’re thinking about, okay, so of the people that are out there, let me look at three people and have a chemistry session with three people. Chemistry sessions like 30 minutes. In that you’re asking them about what they’ve done.
why they’re a coach, what they can bring to you, what you can expect from them. And from that, you’re working out, okay, so which of those do I want to work with? And you’ll get a gut feel for it. And sometimes it’s none of those and it’s moving on to the next three. But there are also algorithms that do this as well. So matching people through personalities that have really high success as well. There are a couple of ways of doing it.
Bruce
Right. Okay. Yeah. The first thing I did when I stopped my coach is I used the budget for that to get coaches for other people who worked with me. like it wasn’t like a rejection of coaching, but just, um, at the time I just didn’t feel like we were getting enough from it to justify that.
Tiffany Gaskell (25:52.664)
And then there’s the other thing, you know, that’s why like it’s so important to be connecting it to the bottom line. So for example, just talk about like a coaching engagement that worked really well and got really good return on investment for an organization. We were working with an energy director of an airspace company and he had been a micro manager. So that’s the old style of leadership and.
And through his coaching and training, he decided to step into a much more empowering style. And when he did that, one of his team felt empowered to go off and do some research and they found a loophole in legislation that meant there was a 6 million euro return on investment from that coaching because of that loophole that she found. And that was because of that change in style.
In terms of enabling empowerment, innovation, creativity, that’s the sport to come from.
That’s a really big question, I guess, quite a timely question, which is the generational debate, the generational issues that a lot of people reflect on right now and whether Gen Zs are top of mind. We had years and years talking about millennials and now we’re very much focused on Gen Zs. I guess there are questions which often veer into generational blaming about whether Gen Zs are fundamentally different.
Bruce
But I wonder if you could reflect on what an understanding of coaching might help us with in terms of interpreting these, these relationships.
Tiffany Gaskell (27:39.028)
thinking about is that the workplace is a completely different place to pre-pandemic and there’s been some seismic shifts that have happened as a result of the pandemic and we’ve got more generations coming into the workplace who won’t put up with not having meaning and purpose and enjoyment at work. So these are the levers that are being pulled for organizations because they need to attract and retain talent, right?
So it’s a really, really urgent call to action for organizations. And what I love is that all of these things are happening at the same time. So we’ve got post-pandemic, we’ve got these new generations in work who won’t put up with anything less than. Then we’ve got whistleblowing and we’ve got transparency on a level that we’ve never had before. All of these pressures are actually creating a new integrity in organizations because there is no place to hide and you have to be.
what you say you are.
So there’s just basically a new operating system for organizations now getting rid of some of the things that we all knew weren’t really effective in the past.
Yeah, exactly. And that’s where that performance curve comes in. Essentially with the performance curve, you’ve got low performance going to high performance, right? And you go through the four stages of culture and every organization fits into it. The thing is that, so the first one is impulsive. And in this culture, what people are thinking is I’m firefighting. I spend my whole time firefighting. know, I never know what’s going to happen. There’s no planning.
Tiffany Gaskell (29:18.936)
So it’s very active and the next culture is dependent and that’s the hierarchical culture. And we’ve talked a lot about that in this podcast because it’s the, it’s the old way of doing things. It’s the command and control and people in the, that organization are thinking there’s no point me showing up to do anything other than the job I’ve been told to do because they know best and I know nothing. I’m disempowered. And then the one after that is a place of independence. And that’s where.
me as a banker, you know, I thought I was a star performer and that’s what people in that organization think. But the problem is there’s internal competition there. So it’s a dog eat dog world and you know, I take down the person who was trying to take my profits away from me. And then the last one is interdependent. And this one is where people are united behind values and vision. Here, people can self-actualize in that organization and that is the
the place that organizations should be heading and those organizations are led by transformational leaders. so everything that you’ve described about kind of like, you know, when you were talking about how you perceived me, you know, as a problem and how you’d interact with me, that was a transformational leader doing that. But that is the way of the future.
Got it. It just really strikes me that if organizations can turn this into their wiring document, if they can turn it into sort of the way that they’re organized, it reduces the stress on a manager. But does that thing of providing some degree of autonomy to workers, making them feel like I’m being asked for my input? You know, I’m not just filling in emails. I’m actually providing some contribution to what’s going on here.
Exactly. So the leader gets to tap into the genius of the people in his team, which is extraordinary. mean, why would one not? I am just thinking about how that being the operating principle, if organizations understood that, and if they measured their culture, you know, at least to understand the case of where are we now, where do we need to get to? That is the route map to transforming the workplace, the global workplace for the better.
Bruce Daisley (31:31.662)
It’s really interesting, know, sort of a guessing conclusion, you know, I’d love to get your final thoughts. But I think our first instinct when we think about coaching is we think about one-to-one and it’s all about the individual and it’s not necessarily scalable. It requires a lot of time. But what you’ve articulated is that actually if we’re to use this to its fullest benefit, actually coaching is about holistic concept, which should be the DNA of an organization. It should be the approach of an organization.
And, know, in its real form there, then it’s one to many, or many to many. It’s about a whole approach to organizational health really. And it’s just an interesting reframing because I guess, you know, if I started off saying, there a coaching bubble? Well, I guess to some extent there’s not enough of a coaching growth yet, because we’re still focused on the individual rather than thinking about the collective.
Yes, exactly. And that’s where we’ll get the power of transformation, you know, when we go to the collective. And I love the way you articulated that. Bullseye.
Fabulous and you must feel honored to have this sixth edition of the Coaching for Performance book out now. How has the book been received? Great.
I mean, the thing about this book is that, you know, what I always say and the people in our organization is that we’re standing on the shoulder of giant. mean, so John went, you he was going on about this in the late seventies and he really broke down a lot of the walls and went into boardrooms and told people about coaching. He’s done so much work or he did so much work to get it out into the world. And so to be working, it feels like working with him on the book.
Tiffany Gaskell (33:11.702)
bring his timeless but timely wisdom to now is such an honor, as you say.
Does a book like this get updated? What do you change when you do a new addition?
Tiffany Gaskell
last edition, which I also worked on, we changed it to a how-to book. So it’s very, very practical. It’s got loads of, you’ll have seen this, it’s got lots of activities in it. And this time we’ve put more dialogues in it. We’ve reflected the shifts from the pandemic and the great resignation, know, trends like that. Because what we’re seeing in the workplace is we’re seeing that there are secondary needs emerging.
When we think about Maslow, for example, and his hierarchy of human needs, there were primary needs and now there are secondary needs emerging so that people don’t just want to have a job and get the esteem, but they want to have a job where they feel they’re contributing and that they’re contributing in a meaningful way.
Yeah, I found those coaching discussions in the book, those sort of two headers, I found them were really helpful for just sort of showing what this actually looks like in reality.
Tiffany Gaskell (34:14.254)
the thing, like people don’t understand coaching is until, and they, didn’t, mean, how are we meant to, right? Until we actually see it. And so we wanted to lay it out on a page. And so what there are in there is there’s the, the leader as coach conversations, you know, with the team member, and then there’s a coach in a formal environment where they’re one-to-one coaching. So you can see how those different things play out and how the different take on the skills. So the coaching skills are still the foundation, but it’s. How does a leader use those and how does a coach use those?
